Curse

awesome sauce · Aug 06, 2008, 05:13 AM // 05:13

http://discovermagazine.com/2008/aug...ction-of-earth

Word is they start testing it in the next week, it's being kept at 1.5 degrees above absolute zero, actual use won't come until November. Good thing we will be engulfed before we can even think about it.

Lord Sojar · Aug 06, 2008, 05:47 AM // 05:47

Yes, project ATLAS is included in the LHC. The chance of LHC creating a blackhole that could actively expand is less than our sun going red giant tomorrow.

In theory, you would have to force the particles into a tachyon state, in which case, their angular momentum upon passing would be so great, they could collapse matter into itself. BUT, tachyon states are only possible on particles without helecity (in theory), which there is only once in existence (2D synthetic particle), and those are clearly not used in the LHC.

Those accusations are indeed baseless, and silly. Peoples' irrational fear of black holes is amusing. The atomic forces needed to create a black hole are ENORMOUS, many billions of times the magnitude of the measly 10 Gigajoules produced by the LHC's magnet system.

The LHC should give us some great insights into dark matter properties as well, which I will be very interested in. In addition, I doubt even the LHC can disrupt the Higgs fields long enough to reveal the elusive particle, because of the needed tachyon emissions which they will be unable to achieve. In theory, the Higgs boson is laced with gbosons and funny enough, gbosons are nearly impossible to fracture because of quark interactions. If they can separate quarks, they have a chance; otherwise, forget it, mesons are basically indestructible at light speed only.

nekopowa · Aug 06, 2008, 07:42 AM // 07:42

The science behind the LHC is beyond 95% people's understanding. It's no wonder some dun-bass americans (where pre-university education quality is quite poor in compare to the rest of the world) grouped up and caused all sorts of drama and panic about it.

People are scared of the unknown and that's an exploit severely abused by governments around the world.

P.S. No offense to intelligent american residents, you're the ones that keep the world spinning.

zwei2stein · Aug 06, 2008, 08:03 AM // 08:03

Worst thing about these irrational fears is that little, easy to grasp knowledge with applied common sense completely invalidates them.

Universe is filled with high-energy particles that hit stuff a LOT. We only build stuff like LHC because it gives us controlled, human-accessible environment to study it.

If fears of black hole from LHC were based on facts, pretty much everything in universe would have been swallowed by black holes already. It is estimated that LHC-grade collisions happen in earth upper atmosphere dozens of times per day.

awesome sauce · Aug 06, 2008, 08:30 AM // 08:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

Yes, project ATLAS is included in the LHC. The chance of LHC creating a blackhole that could actively expand is less than our sun going red giant tomorrow.

In theory, you would have to force the particles into a tachyon state, in which case, their angular momentum upon passing would be so great, they could collapse matter into itself. BUT, tachyon states are only possible on particles without helecity (in theory), which there is only once in existence (2D synthetic particle), and those are clearly not used in the LHC.

Those accusations are indeed baseless, and silly. Peoples' irrational fear of black holes is amusing. The atomic forces needed to create a black hole are ENORMOUS, many billions of times the magnitude of the measly 10 Gigajoules produced by the LHC's magnet system.

The LHC should give us some great insights into dark matter properties as well, which I will be very interested in. In addition, I doubt even the LHC can disrupt the Higgs fields long enough to reveal the elusive particle, because of the needed tachyon emissions which they will be unable to achieve. In theory, the Higgs boson is laced with gbosons and funny enough, gbosons are nearly impossible to fracture because of quark interactions. If they can separate quarks, they have a chance; otherwise, forget it, mesons are basically indestructible at light speed only.

Well, I think now we have the problem of the black hole that you've created in my head. My physics education goes as far as 2 trimesters of basic Newtonian high school physics, but all of that is still very interesting to me because I'll be majoring in geophysics in the fall.

Etta · Aug 06, 2008, 08:44 AM // 08:44

End of days, I will welcome it with the open arms. I only wish it'll be here faster.

Sleeper Service · Aug 06, 2008, 11:00 AM // 11:00

theres a short story that raises this exact situation and for the life of me i can't remember its title and author, Niven or Harlan Ellison i think...

Divinitys Creature · Aug 06, 2008, 04:14 PM // 16:14

Is there a model for how long it would take for us to be engulfed if a black hole did form and stabilise?

AscalonWarrior · Aug 06, 2008, 04:22 PM // 16:22

I don't get it, how and why does the world end? Because of the bigass thing they built in CERN?

DarkNecrid · Aug 06, 2008, 04:29 PM // 16:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divinitys Creature

Is there a model for how long it would take for us to be engulfed if a black hole did form and stabilise?

Depending on size and how fast it is, it could be anywhere from very very long, to before you know it.

The worst this thing will create is micro blackholes. Which aren't deadly at all, in fact hundreds of them pass through the earth and dissipate.

Quote:

I don't get it, how and why does the world end? Because of the bigass thing they built in CERN?

If in some way the thing creates a functional black hole....(not likely)

Lord Sojar · Aug 06, 2008, 04:57 PM // 16:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by awesome sauce

Well, I think now we have the problem of the black hole that you've created in my head. My physics education goes as far as 2 trimesters of basic Newtonian high school physics, but all of that is still very interesting to me because I'll be majoring in geophysics in the fall.

You would have to take graduate quantum physics to understand quantum fields and thresholds. The mesons that supposedly surround the higgs boson are composed of quark matter. To split a quark, it takes almost an infinite amount of energy, at least by our understanding of quantum mechanics (which is a joke still) I did my thesis on the quantum mechanics, specifically the relation of the higgs boson with gauge bosons. You will need extensive eigenvector experience to start calculations in this area, as well as extensive knowledge into quark and antiquark interactions (including flavor btw), as well as mass centric angular momentum.

Basically, the PEP (Pauli exclusion principle) states that the Higgs Boson must exist by its ability to give off space occupying behaviors (despite how some "massless" subparticles don't). The Higgs Boson exists, but seeing it may very well be impossible with our crude technology. PEP also states that you must have a very powerful gravitational field to form a black hole, wherein matter implodes on itself. The gravitational force of some measly magnetic track smashing protons together isn't nearly enough to trigger the phenomena. Now, if they mixed neutrons into the mix, perhaps that could create some lovely d-matter (degenerate matter), in which case, the only thing that would happen is that the LHC would go through a flux state and collapse on itself due to massiveness of the d-matter.

The LHC at best will result in a derivation from the standard model of QM, which many physists have already suggested. The Higgs boson has a relatively tiny mass, but its quantum field generally exceeds its massiveness. Thus, it breaks the standard model and goes around Planck, well exceeding output laws we currently understand. If it has a mass within ATLAS's capabilities, ATLAS will detect it and its phenomena. ATLAS is our best hope for understanding the theoretical Higgs particle.

On the note of your major, good for you! Geophysics is tough though, and still a relatively unpredictable science. If you love physics though, I encourage you to take it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

If in some way the thing creates a functional black hole....(completely impossible)

Let me correct that statement for you.

zwei2stein · Aug 06, 2008, 05:41 PM // 17:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

...

black hole is not worst thing that can happen. Breaching "false vacuum" would be (good-bye to pretty much everything that is casually connected to point of breach.).

However if LHC creating black holes is deemed to be impossible, this would be impossibly-impossible. Humanity might never ever be able to achieve that.

If you want to worry about something, worry about false vacuum breach. It can come anytime and we never would see it coming, we would just cease to exist. And if it can happen, it eventually will: its creation is not really dependent on us, paltry humans doing anything, it can happen anywhere in observable universe and will eventually destroy us.

Cool thing to fearmonger with, eh?

Lord Sojar · Aug 06, 2008, 06:28 PM // 18:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

black hole is not worst thing that can happen. Breaching "false vacuum" would be (good-bye to pretty much everything that is casually connected to point of breach.).

However if LHC creating black holes is deemed to be impossible, this would be impossibly-impossible. Humanity might never ever be able to achieve that.

If you want to worry about something, worry about false vacuum breach. It can come anytime and we never would see it coming, we would just cease to exist. And if it can happen, it eventually will: its creation is not really dependent on us, paltry humans doing anything, it can happen anywhere in observable universe and will eventually destroy us.

Cool thing to fearmonger with, eh?

Wait...what? You mean Luccia's theory? That is quite a funny theory, although seemingly impossible at the same time. That is very extreme QM, and is widely ignored by most physicists because of the nature of the exclusion. That would infer that quantum fields undetectable by current methodology exist that are without substance, and if they came into being dimensionally, they would forcibly remove our fields.

That would infer that higgs field is massless, and isn't meson carried. Primarily, that would also infer that the universe functions such as black holes reaching critical mass and releasing enormous heat would stabilize the higgs field, which would in all aspects, make black holes most organized structures (if they can even be qualified as such) in the universe. Black holes are far from that. Crazy theory, nothing more.

AscalonWarrior · Aug 06, 2008, 06:40 PM // 18:40

We have 1 day and 2 hours to get naked and run on the streets

DarkNecrid · Aug 06, 2008, 06:46 PM // 18:46

*and have massive sex orgies.

fix'd.

Lord Sojar · Aug 06, 2008, 07:04 PM // 19:04

More or less, yes. Kiss yo asses goodbye.

zwei2stein · Aug 07, 2008, 06:35 AM // 06:35

Launch postponed: http://www.russia-ic.com/news/show/6852/

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

Wait...what? You mean Luccia's theory?

And Colleman's.

Anyway, craziest theories make best fearmongering because they look impressive

Besides, i like idea, because it involves very cool relativistic effect as from our POW, it would seem that it swallows entire universe in mere minutes and would have false appearance of spreading faster than light.

Lord Sojar · Aug 07, 2008, 07:27 PM // 19:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

Launch postponed: http://www.russia-ic.com/news/show/6852/

And Colleman's.

Anyway, craziest theories make best fearmongering because they look impressive

Besides, i like idea, because it involves very cool relativistic effect as from our POW, it would seem that it swallows entire universe in mere minutes and would have false appearance of spreading faster than light.

Oh yeh, forgot about Coleman.

That would basically insinuate that the envelope was in a tachyon state, which is lolz.

Yang Whirlwind · Aug 07, 2008, 07:47 PM // 19:47

Rahja - you're not supposed to let people know you are that smart (and nerdy)

Just want to say this before we all get sucked into the black hole: I didn't do it!

Abedeus · Aug 07, 2008, 08:13 PM // 20:13

As long as they don't create a large hole, it will live for like a fraction of a second and probably my country will survive. Only Switzies will be sucked in. I'm sorry, I mean accreted.

Just see the article, according to Stephen Hawkings, the smaller hole is, the hotter it is and the faster it dies. And since humans can't create hole big enough to make it survive long enough to destroy anything. It's not like every black hole is going to devour everything. If that was true... then we wouldn't be here.